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Offline [KC}magates

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sportmanship and random imba luck
« on: February 05, 2010, 12:32:54 PM »
Okay games are not fun if luck is not involved.  That's what makes civ, poker and every other game of chance so addictive.   But it's also a game of skill.  I'd like to see more people willing to do things to reduce imba luck.  The main one being war starts in ancient games.   The war start is banned in CCC and I wish people would ban it in regular league games, but it's only banned in about 5% of games and occours in maybe 10% of games?


In addition taking insane odds (less than 10%) with one of your initial warriors to kill the civ and winning seems imba luck.  I just saw EXXE as agg/imp rome die to a 9.1%  warrior kill from a war start.  Awesome if your the lucky guy who get's double forest warrior and kills another person with the same warrior.  not so awesome if your on the losing team.   I'd be in favor of banning taking odds less than 10% in the first 20 turns simply to make the game more skill based, less luck based.  I know some players are so conservative they keep 2 warriors in cap just to avoid this kind of stupid odds taking and I guess that is A solution.

I'd also like to see more cap/pick games.  Again it's just decreases the luck factor and increases the skill factor wihtouth making the game un-fun.   

Thoughts?     

Offline OT4E

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 12:57:22 PM »
Civ is skill game first of all.

I am much more tired from those who take 50% risk one by one. With first odd he loses advantage, with second he sacrifices position, with third suicides. I am really bored of this.

% is your help but it never defines situation. You allways must evaluate the risk you take. What exactly do you risk with and for. If you risk cap and game for 10% it is pretty silly. It is easy to lower down this chance to 0. Otherwise if you take 10% risk each game expect to die easily in 1 games from 10.

How to protect yourself from risk?
1) Fortify war
2) Settle on hill
3) Keep scout around

If you are agg rome 10% is pretty worth to remove you from the game play.
Oh, damn! I have just lost 51%. How could that happen? Where is firaxis complaint section?

Offline jobe

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 01:02:32 PM »
It´s a matter of skill 95% of the time whether you´re opponent is even able to get into a position where he has 10%.

Just as a general thought, wouldn´t it be interesting if anything above/below a certain odd was sure win/loss? Like 90% and higher = win, 10% or less = loss. The fight still works like now, just instead of losing a 90%, your unit stops losing hp at 0.1 and instead just wins the rest of the battle. Same other way round, instead of killing a unit with 10% or less, you get it down to 0.1hp and then your unit dies.

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Offline RedPhoenix

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 01:51:55 PM »
It´s a matter of skill 95% of the time whether you´re opponent is even able to get into a position where he has 10%.

Just as a general thought, wouldn´t it be interesting if anything above/below a certain odd was sure win/loss? Like 90% and higher = win, 10% or less = loss. The fight still works like now, just instead of losing a 90%, your unit stops losing hp at 0.1 and instead just wins the rest of the battle. Same other way round, instead of killing a unit with 10% or less, you get it down to 0.1hp and then your unit dies.



No it would be utrely boring. Nothing is 100% in life.

Offline Givi

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 01:58:08 PM »
Quote
Nothing is 100% in life

We will die. 100%

Moineau

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 02:08:18 PM »
You not even sure, did you try?

Offline OT4E

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 02:24:26 PM »
Quote
Nothing is 100% in life

We will die. 100%
We will live 100%.
Oh, damn! I have just lost 51%. How could that happen? Where is firaxis complaint section?

Offline OT4E

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 02:27:22 PM »
It´s a matter of skill 95% of the time whether you´re opponent is even able to get into a position where he has 10%.

Just as a general thought, wouldn´t it be interesting if anything above/below a certain odd was sure win/loss? Like 90% and higher = win, 10% or less = loss. The fight still works like now, just instead of losing a 90%, your unit stops losing hp at 0.1 and instead just wins the rest of the battle. Same other way round, instead of killing a unit with 10% or less, you get it down to 0.1hp and then your unit dies.
What is 90%. Sword vs chariot? 6 vs 4. Did you ever think of what you are suggesting?

Up to me 10 vs 2 = no chance = okay. And it works in civ.
Oh, damn! I have just lost 51%. How could that happen? Where is firaxis complaint section?

Offline Speaker

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2010, 02:30:10 PM »
My scout killed a warrior on flat ground the other day.  99.1% the other guy lost.  That would irritate me.
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diurpaneus

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2010, 02:53:50 PM »
Beat Zoo's 99.9%  8)

His skirm killed my fortified jag on wooded hill.

Offline Speaker

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2010, 03:10:35 PM »
I think I remember NOM losing a Dogsoldier attacking a warrior once.
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Offline Penny

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2010, 03:58:50 PM »
My scout killed a warrior on flat ground the other day.  99.1% the other guy lost.  That would irritate me.
Had that in the latest CTON I played. Scout was protecting the worker on flat :p
Guy had 1 warrior in cap, wasnt going to get one, and I obviously had autpromo on...
I was supposedely out of the game (no kill but superchoke) and I ended up losing my forest hill position :p

But that's part of the game. I'll crush the guy the other 99% of the time.

Offline [KC}magates

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2010, 04:28:09 PM »
Jobe,

I have thought along a simlar line about odds toward the end of the spectrum.   in my sceheme a 50/50 always remains 50/50 but as you get toward the extremes the odds grow exponetially.  so a 60% is like a 65%, 70% is more like a 80%, 80% is more like 95%, and 90% is more like 99.99999% i think this would probably mess up the "damage" scheme which seems to work fine for stack attacks.   

I once had 98% to kill a civ early on and lost.  I will never forget that insanity.

Offline OT4E

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 05:19:12 PM »
Sometimes scouts kill warriors, chariots kill spears but it happen so rarely and so suddenly that usually changes nothing in the gameplay. Some time more complicated low odds happen. For example if you attack 80% and deal no damage but I have to concluse that civ random/damage system is fair.
2 vs 1 warrior vs scout is very good chance but not confident. So scout wins only once per 100 times.
Current system greatly increase advantage of the stronger unit. In 6 vs 4 you get not 60 vs 40 but 90 vs 10. There are a lot of reasons for that. You also get 65% immidiadly even if you have only minor advantage.

I have lost a lot of 99% battles but I never remember them being deciding. They all became fairy tales and theme for a party talks. But I remember a lot of games where I lost a lot by trying 80 or 90% in the wrong time.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 05:25:45 PM by OT4E »
Oh, damn! I have just lost 51%. How could that happen? Where is firaxis complaint section?

Offline miL0

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Re: sportmanship and random imba luck
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2010, 08:05:36 PM »
I remember killing scorp with a chariot that defended against his agg spear  ;D
[11:15 PM]  Moineau : bemep want to make a try without hamachi
[11:20 PM]  Bemep2 : i can reload by direkt ip
[11:20 PM]  Moineau : no
[11:20 PM]  Moineau : HAMACHI

 

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